Margaret Court, the former No 1 Women’s Tennis Player and pastor of the Victory Life Centre in Perth, today published an Op Ed in the Herald Sun that has stirred up a hornet’s nest of controversy due to some of the ideas it espouses regarding same-sex attraction and marriage. Arguments have raged over what she means by some of her stranger pronouncements.
In order to give everyone the best possible chance to fully understand what she means, I’ve chucked on the cowdung-filtering spectacles and had a go at translating her piece. Let me know what you think.
WE live in a blessed nation but Australia is on a steep moral decline.
Everywhere you look we are making excuses for a sliding lifestyle and more people are blind to it than ever before.
I miss the way things were when I was young. Young people are loud, and the colours they wear are too bright. One of them swore at me.
Our Constitution is based on biblical principles and our nation is great because of it.
I have a pretty poor knowledge of history and the early political institutions that gave rise to our modern parliamentary democracy. But, Australia!
God put lots of wonderful minerals in the ground for us to find and that makes us awesome.
We are a country with a moral fabric and families and marriage are at its core.
Everything is okay only if people are having babies. Our continued survival is dependent on penises entering vaginas and depositing semen. All else is folly.
But increasingly our kids are being taught that anything goes.
If our kids see two men, or two ladies kissing, they will catch Gay or Lesbians.
As a society we are losing touch with fundamental Christian values, as our leaders lean towards an agenda of political correctness to keep the minorities happy.
People who aren’t like everybody else are asking to be treated equitably, and that’s making it much harder for me to be a bigot.
We live in a world of moral values. Even those without faith know what is right and what is wrong. We all have a conscience and so many people get trapped in the pattern of saying something is right when deep down they know it isn’t.
Did you know people who aren’t Christians are people? Actual real, live people? I was surprised too. My word!
Anyway, some people are starting to say that bigotry isn’t a good thing and we all know, deep down, that this isn’t true.
It’s that attitude that can harden hearts. People suddenly justify the immoralities around them.
Critical thinking and reconciling multiple points of view are, along with masturbation, the devil’s tools.
We have taken the easy way out. Minorities are now making it harder for the majority. They are increasingly taking everything that is good in society and pushing it to the side.
Brown People and The Gays are ruining everything. Straight, white people can’t say whatever they want and that makes me scared, because telling people they are horrible is my job.
Looking back, you can see that there has been a steep decline, especially when it comes to the issue of sexuality. There is so much scripture within the Bible that points to what we see happening now. We are losing that sense of discipline.
Did you know that some people are doing ‘it’ with the lights on? Some people even do ‘it’ when they don’t want a baby!
Truly, we live in a modern day Sodom.
Let me be clear. I believe that a person’s sexuality is a choice. In the Bible it said that homosexuality is among sins that are works of the flesh. It is not something you are born with.
You are not born Gay, a Gay needs to make you into a Gay. Like vampires. Can you be born a Vampire? No.
My concern is that we are advocating to young people that it is OK to have these feelings. But I truly believe if you are told you are gay from a young age, soon enough it will start to impact your life and you will live it. If somebody is told they are gay they often start to believe it.
Gay is catching through words. If a Gay talks to a teenaged boy, soon that boy will start listening to dance music and dressing well and thinking about bums. They will not want to put their penises into vaginas.
We are living in a society that takes the easy way out. But we have to work at life and make things better. You need to be disciplined. I became the first Australian woman to win Wimbledon because I trained hard and worked towards it.
You should listen to me because I am good at sports.
It’s why I believe so strongly in the sanctity of marriage. It takes hard work. Children need a mother and a father – stability from a male and a female – and I think we are losing sight of this.
Children have a mother and father so they know how to do ‘it’ later on. If they do not have a father, they will start thinking about bums.
Did you know some children are allowed to have only one parent? This is not against the law, isn’t that crazy?
We are led by politicians who lie and spread deceit. They no longer stand true to their word and that affects us all, as a nation. Lies just don’t seem to matter much any more.
JULIAR!
There is so much deception in the world and it’s getting worse by the minute. The Book of Romans speaks of the people of Earth trading in God; of worshipping life and things within it instead of God who made us. By refusing Him, women no longer know how to be women and men no longer know how to be men. We have lost our way and have been convinced by the secular view that it’s all OK.
If they don’t believe in God, men will stop thinking about vaginas and start thinking about bums! If ladies don’t believe in God, they will stop thinking about penises and start thinking about vaginas and goodness, I don’t even know how two ladies would do ‘it’!
People will stop having babies and then the Brown People will come.
It worries me because I fear our next generation will lose all direction and become more blinded than ever before.
Dogs and cats, living together! Rain of blood! The dead rising from their graves!
I can’t understand, if we are a blessed nation under a biblical Constitution, why there is such a push to change it? We will only start to tear away at the rich fabric and sustained values. Then God will take his hand off our nation and the lights will go out.
If we don’t do what God says he will personally come down and smack us around until we say we’re sorry. Do you want that? Huh? Do you want to make God angry? He hates hitting us, he hates it, but you make him do it.
That is why I believe we need to protect marriage because it has been God-ordained from the beginning.
God told man to be united with his wife and to multiply on earth.
BABIES!
I had fame and success and a great husband but I always knew something was missing in my life. I used to think there had to be more to it.
Once again, I was good at sports, you should listen to me.
I knew He was there but I didn’t know how to make the connection. I didn’t understand how God could be real in my life. But then I accepted Jesus Christ, and believed that He came to Earth as the son of God, to die for our sins.
Even then I didn’t understand the power of the Bible, his word. If I knew then what I knew now I could have won six Wimbledons, not three. The New Testament is the greatest book on psychology. It shows you how to live victoriously. It’s our TV guide to life. It has everything in there for every facet – even how to run a nation.
I am sad because the Bible could have made me better at sports, because the Bible is a magic book that makes everything better instantaneously.
People think it’s a book of fear but it is not. It’s a book of love and a training manual for life that offers protection from sin. Life is but a wisp. So many turn to God on their deathbeds but if they accepted His love during life they would experience far more blessings. We will pass away, but the scriptures won’t.
God gives you superpowers and makes everything wonderful and stops bad things from happening.
We need to turn our minds back to God and I still believe we have the capacity to make that change. Understand that there is a God and that He is real and that He can be part of your life.
A nun at my primary school once gave me the cane and it was one of the best lessons of my life. She could see the potential in me long before I did. She gave me a grounding for the future, for which I remain grateful. I didn’t have an easy childhood but I had good families around me that sowed into my life. That’s what our kids need right now. People who are willing to stand up for them, for our families, in a world where we have become far too scared.
The only way to teach kids anything is to hit them. I was hit and it did me the world of good.
She should be hit. Soundly, In the head and neck.
In the paper my companion piece sits alongside, but online it’s buried in the iPad edition only. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/court-wrong-on-the-issue-of-gay-choice/story-fn6bfkm6-1226252771925
Jesus, that’s a damn shame. Should have been facing one another. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.
Doug, you and Mingeroot are centre-spread in the printed edition.
Oh, that’s what “in the paper” means. Oops. *blush* Not used to people seeing the print edition these days.
It’s really quite insane that in this era, something as horribly doctrinal as this was published in a mainstream broadsheet. I just think of ALL the other people who are NOT Catholic (excuse me if I’m wrong, I’m fairly sure that she is Catholic given what she’s discussed) reading her preachy article and feeling incredibly ostracised.
Also I love the juxtaposition between ‘It’s a book of love’ and ‘A nun whacked me at school and that violence really helped’. What?!?
For what it’s worth, the Herald Sun is a tabloid not a broadsheet. Not that The Age is much better these days…
This tumblr does provide a bit of an idea how different the two are:
http://theagevsheraldsun.tumblr.com/
Herald Sun ain’t no broadsheet. Not unless hell has frozen over.
I would say she is not catholic based on the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastor
Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches typically refer to their local church leaders as “parish priests”. The term pastor may be used, in a more casual way, particularly in North America. However, Anglican churches do not formally use the term “pastor”; rather, they frequently use the terms “rector” or “vicar” as alternatives to “parish priest.
Also what she is spouting is typical new-age christian dogma. She does mention being beaten by a nun so she probably grew up in a catholic school, however we can interpret by her talking about her period of loneliness with her husband (without god) as suggesting that she left the catholic church and was born again into one of the more crackpot churches. Anyway your point still stands.
She’s not a Catholic, they’re noticeably less nuts than people like Court. She hangs with this lot http://www.victorylifecentre.com.au/
Actually, given the emphasis on the Bible she’s more likely to be one of the more fundamentalist Christian groups. Not once did she mention teachings of the Church, which a Catholic probably would.
Also, not ALL Catholics are bigots. She’s a twit, and this page is hilarious. And I’m Catholic.
Actually, I’ll add that my GRANDMOTHER is 80, Catholic, and believes that gays should have recognised civil unions. So yeah. Please stop bashing Catholics, we’re really not all bad!
She is not a Catholic – she runs her own church!
According to the most trusted of sources (Wikipedia) – “Court was raised as a Catholic, but became a Pentecostal in the mid-1970s. In 1983, she gained a theological qualification from the Rhema Bible Training Centre and in 1991 became a minister. Court subsequently went on to found a ministry known as the Margaret Court Ministries.”
In other words, she’s making a buck out of it, and probably at concessional tax rates.
I think she is one of those american “inspired” evangelical protestants.
A McChristian.
never heard the term ‘McChristian’ before. It’s great!
Yes, nothing like mutual name calling to make us all feel good
She is not a Catholic. She is so vain she started her own religion like Henry VIII. That’s right she has invented her own personal brand of Christianity and has recruited her own bunch of gullible followers. It’s called Victory Life Ministries or more correctly VICTORYLIFE PTY LTD ACN 132 920 328. She has her own “church” in a big tin warehouse in an Industrial area of Perth. She has convinced nearly 1000 gullible and souls to fork out very week to pay her wages and costs. She is her own Pope with her own Church over which she is the Supreme Leader and has absolute control. She is the ultimate megalomaniac and goes by the title The Rev. Dr. Margaret Court touting her honourary doctorate from the dodgy “Oral Roberts University” in Tulsa Oklahoma as if it were a legitimate qualification. In my view to avoid misunderstandings she should make her qualifications and their provenance much clearer. I suggest Rev. Dr. Margaret Court, Phd. (Oral).
But it’s all good because it’s the ultimate tax dodge. Empty the bank accounts of the gullible, make yourself rich and don’t pay tax, sweeeeeet;
I think the words “Tulsa, Oklahoma” say it all! Their biggest attraction is a giant bronze statue of hands joined in prayer. Enough said.
I love these fire and brimstone “world going to hell in a handbasket” opinions. Nothing is declining, just your relative point of view (Margaret).
“The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.”
- Socrates, 470 BC
“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly disrespectful and impatient of restraint”
- Hesiod, 8 BC
“The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress.”
- Peter the Hermit, 1274 AD
Awesome! Stolen!
So many pointed caps
Laced with double flaps,
And so gay felted hats
Saw I never;
So many good lessons,
So many good sermons,
And so few devotions
Saw I never.
- John Skelton, 1510 AD
Teh Gays! They are immoral and the source of all problems in Australia if not the world!!!
Or you know, she’s a bigot who is sadly being given the time of day when really she should be shunned for preaching such intolerance.
I don’t know about ALL the problems, what will that leave to blame immigrants and refugees for??
Brilliant!!!!
I want my flying monkey. I was promised flying monkies and fire raining from the sky.
Oh yeah, our constitution is based on Teh Bibbles!!!111oneses!
You can tell because of all those crimes on our books with a legislated punishment of being battered to death with rocks by your family and neighbours.
“I became the first Australian woman to win Wimbledon because I trained hard and worked towards it.”
So, that would have made you a minority then, Margaret? AHA! The truth is revealed! Go back to your cave and hide in the shadows, you beast of Satan, and leave us white straight married office workers to our majority business.
Nice deconstruciton, Mike. How sadly and damagingly deluded she is.
You are a naughty naughty man!
It’s unclear to me which text is Court’s and which is the satanical, i mean satirical, response.
I’m thinking about where to get a nun to hit me for a bit.
lol…I’m with you there!
She is without doubt batshit fucking crazy.
“My concern is that we are advocating to young people that it is OK to have these feelings. But I truly believe if you are told you are gay from a young age, soon enough it will start to impact your life and you will live it. If somebody is told they are gay they often start to believe it.”
Let’s all tell her that she is gay!
“My concern is that we are advocating to young people that it is OK to have these feelings. But I truly believe if you are told you are gay from a young age, soon enough it will start to impact your life and you will live it. If somebody is told they are gay they often start to believe it.”
Yes, by telling kids it’s okay to be gay, we are turning them into Gays!
Good grief. Has dear old Margaret ever even met a gay person?
My letter to the Herald editor
I could have gone on and on and on and on
===========================================
It is such a shame to see Margaret Court’s rant on gay marriage and other issues. it shows the level of delusion possible in people who hold such beliefs. She claims to speak with biblical authority yet the very bible she follows clearly commands that she ( A woman ) should remain silent and only allow men to speak in church and on important moral subjects. She chooses to ignore the parts of that discriminate against her and slavishly follows the parts of the book that discriminates against others.
She claims homosexuality is a choice, so obviously she to some extent bisexual and has some homosexual desires that she could choose to act on but for her beliefs. Anyone that is exclusively heterosexual or homosexual knows that their sexuality is not a choice because they could never “Choose” their sexual orientation.
She tries to cover a message of hate and intolerance in the guise of love and morality.
“I love them, I even work with them … but what concerns me so much is the amount of hatred that has been directed at me…”
Or: I love them, but I actually don’t love them.
Oh Mike I love you!
“Then God will take his hand off our nation and the lights will go out”
Why has God got his live giving hands on our Nation? Isn’t that Providential Ejaculatory Nationalistic Onanism?
God is taking over “Earth Hour” this year…
You are cool.
This is bewdiful but it still didn’t make me laugh as hard as Court’s article.
The author displays his gross ignorance of Christianity and intolerance of its faithful. He expresses a dark cynicism that is pervasive in the postmodern legacy of a deluded and angry polis.
The abuse of the principle of equality in squeezing gay relationships into the civil institution of marriage that is the foundation of the ideal family – mum, dad and the kids – is an abuse of our heritage. Whether or not a marriage expresses the ideal is a human reality of nature and relationship – most want to and many do, but growing proportions, disproportionally in the lower socio-economic public, will not or cannot.
The principle of equality is the key to human freedom. In the past it has seen black people claim equality in law with white people. It should not be devalued in using it to make black be white – man and man/woman and woman cannot be the unitive, complementary, two flesh become one, reproductive and nurturing relationship of which marriage is and has been across human civilisations for all time.
“The abuse of the principle of equality…”
No, sorry, you’re wrong. Equality means that all of us get to be treated equally, not just the ones you approve of. Either all of us are equal, or none of us are.
Your view of equality seems to be about as deluded as your view of marriage as always having been one man and one woman who choose to be together out of love. It completely ignores the times when marriage has been one man and a number of different women, or one man and one women forced to marry to join two families together for political reasons, or one man and his rape victim, or any number of variations on the theme.
I am a heterosexual man. If ever I choose to marry, it will be to a woman. But I’m not interested in having that marriage, should it ever come to pass, be considered superior in any way to two men or two women who decide they want to spend the rest of their lives together. If they can do that and make it work and possibly raise a kid or two to be decent human beings, how on earth can that be considered in any way a less than desirable outcome for anyone involved, or for society in general?
RobC your view on equality are generous to all, but useful to no one.
Our Judeo/Christian heritage has provided the underpinning in the liberal democracies in Western civilisation of the principle of equality. This foundation is the equality of all persons in being created in the Image of God ( imago dei) with its concomitant hymn of the dignity of man and the chorus of care and true, self giving, compassion expressed through the Church in the people of God.
Marriage of man and woman participates in this setting through what is natural and what is aligned with reason. Being of nature and reason such marriage is celebrated in community as a true expression of the future in unfolding new life. New life as fundamental as passing on life to a new generation with our cultural inheritance, as well the opportunity for new life through the emergence of truer fuller persons as a product of complementarity of the sexes in marriage.
It is wrongheaded to deconstruct marriage to a “love in” for anyone who wishes to participate in it. Such deconstruction is driven to meet a trumped up political agenda of gay equality and stands against nature and reason.
Human love is wonderful. Enjoy it as you have it. However it should not be used as an emotional big bang weapon to claim an equality beyond that which we have as people of equal dignity in life.
Marriage is not a community event or opportunity with equal access mandated. It is a high order institution reflecting nature and reason at work in accordance with God’s expression of love for new life and His desire for that love to unfold within the family for the new generation. As such it is, by nature and reason, the blessed domain of a man and a woman.
Cheers
Well said RobC!
But Michael, what about those of us who see no need to hold on to the antiquated, outdated, and really rather ridiculous belief that an imaginary man who lives in the sky created the world and everything in it? Should we still be forced to live by the rules which you choose to follow, and by which you have every right to live?
The Christian church did not invent marriage, and apart from what was, relatively speaking, a rather brief interval, has never had sole claim to the institution which you would proudly seek to defend from those who might choose to participate in it, were they given the choice. Here is a brief history of marriage in Western society, should you choose to no longer remain unencumbered by such tedious things as facts: http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/history_of_marriage_in_western.html
We live in a secular society. Marriage in Australia is a legal institution first and foremost, with a non-compulsory religious component for those who choose it. I can think of no legal reason, your flowery language above notwithstanding, why participation in the contract of marriage should be withheld from same-sex couples, based solely on the genders of the would-be participants.
RobC, beautifully put.
Unfortunately, it seems that there will always be bigots, and they will always shroud themselves in the supposed justifications of religion. It’s interesting how often religious groups generate the most seething hatred for well, anyone else.
Two links that you may find illuminating:
Does religion foster these disgusting people, or just give them an excuse to show their true colours? http://zite.to/vZark1
Is indoctrination of children into religious belief systems a kind of child abuse? http://t.co/zmYbbdeo
RobC – your comment “ridiculous belief” sets the tone and limits of your world view.
The link to the history of marriage is most interesting. I notice the wisdom of the ancients is witnessed with their alignment of nature and reason with marriage exercised between man and woman. Slaves were seen as a natural phenomenon but not the boy love which was a peccadillo for the indulgent and hence of the flesh and not of the mind. The ultimate rejection by civilised man of slavery as an offence to nature (justice) and reason is celebrated as a great expression of the innate equality of man. The extension of such liberation to the gay love / marriage cause breaks with both nature and reason and in my view uses equality as a tool, a stratagem, rather than a value.
I do not deny the reality of love between homosexual lovers. However it is an aberration, not being a bad state in itself, yet it has no demands on equality in the context of marriage as a social institution of fundamental worth..Let us celebrate the love and protect the interests of the lovers before the law, as we have done without dissention, whilst leaving the fine age old legacy of marriage of man and woman to struggle and further re-develop after decades of social erosion.
Our secular state allows us to discuss and dissent, with the goal of favourable public opinion being the prize in truth.
“The Christian church did not invent marriage”
Well said. The Christian church didn’t even invent most Christian beliefs.
I think you’ll find that they can be “two flesh become one”, they can be “nurturing”. Go talk to some homosexual couples and ask.
As to reproductive: Many couples are infertile. Women who’ve passed menopause, women with severe endometriosis, women who’ve had cancer and needed histerectomies, men with reproductive issues of their own… If you’re going to use reproduction as a reason for keeping marriage between men and women, then you need to address what happens to heterosexual couples who are unable to reproduce. Should they also be denied marriage?
QQ : you are missing the point…
you are a funny man! that made my day! thank you!
Loving you right now!
@AliceC Brilliant? Seriously? Tacky really.
“Look at me, my name is Mike and I can cheaply belittle someone’s point of view. It doesn’t matter if I come across as a bully because all my readers here will stick up for me which will just go to show everyone that I am right.”
So Margaret’s words don’t constitute a form of bullying? Her insistence that a small group are ruining for everyone else, that they should be dealt with in some way isn’t a form of harmful marginalization? Hell, at one point she basically advocates hitting kids!
Mocking a hateful opinion isn’t bullying and the ‘demonstrating her faith’ part doesn’t wash – she’s far from the Christianity I brought up with.
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi
But Mike, if only we brought back the cane, we could beat the gay right out of all those poor, misguided kids! You know it makes sense!
Mocking? OK, if that’s what you want to call it.
I stumbled across here because I thought you were a serious writer. This ‘mocking’ smacks of David Letterman rubbish. In other words, it just isn’t funny.
A teacher, writer & activist should have more class.
Good on you, Mark. Though I no longer support organised religion, I was raised in a Catholic family and have many close Christian friends who are appalled at Margaret’s views. It’s a sad situation when supposedly ‘Christian’ people claim the moral high ground against people like you, who are trying to draw attention to their irrational, vitriolic and destructive rhetoric. Keep fighting the good fight!
Oops, I think I called you Mark instead of Mike (please edit if you can, the English teacher in me dislikes making such mistakes lol).
I love this.
Thank you.
Now all I can think about is bums? Has reading this turned me into a gay man??
AARRGGG!!!
Were you touched by a Gay? My beautiful wife, Gordon, was once and look at him now. Oh, the humanity! Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children! (Just not in thong underwear. That’s be wrong.)
This woman is an absolute twit
I will pray that Margaret Court starts listening to points of view besides her own. Maybe through listening she may come to understand that the world and the people in it have not changed. What changes is the way we make sense of our world as we learn more about it.
Failing that, maybe we could legislate against messages of intolerance, oh wait…
This made me laugh until I cried. Unlike the original Op Ed, which just made me want to cry until I punched things.
agreed!
Fantastic! A very nice translation indeed. I’d run out of “[citation needed]” stickers (http://store.xkcd.com/xkcd/#CitationNeededSticker) reading her version alone
Yay for using my favourite Ghostbusters quote!
I think you’ll find that Margaret Court is Dr Rev. Margaret Court of the Victory Life Centre.
http://www.victorylifecentre.com.au/
My understanding is that this group is not a mainstream traditional church group. I don’t know much more than that but I’m sure more information is available.
Poor Margaret. She was a Catholic and ex-Catholics do tend to have “issues” when they take up another religion. She is a Pentecostal minister and wants the powers over the populace that priests have always had. Never mind, she will just have to make do with the money. Does Perth have anything like the money mill which is Hillsong here in Sydney.
“women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.”
1 Corinthians 14:34
regarding Margaret Court “Nothing Important happened today”
Reblogged this on General Happenings in my House and commented:
I’ve never hit “Reblog” before, so I’m not sure how this will look… but I feel this post is well worth sharing!
[...] See also Mike Stuchbery’s: Margaret Court, Translated [...]
Excuse me, when were women given the right to an opinion? Not to mention a job! Shouldn’t she be back in the kitchen or trying for more children. That’s her job! Evelution is the devils work Margaret!
I can only assume she’s never read the Australian Constitution. It’s hardly what one could call “Biblical”!!!
brilliant!!! love it! I’m gonna be a missionary in the Church of Mike Stuchbery
Im not even sure where to begin on both the article and the following comments. Can someone please explain to me why it is ok to twist and distort peoples opinions and then to abuse her for them. Isnt she just as entitled to her opinons as everyone else???? For the record yes I am a Christian and yes I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. That being said I am just as entitled to my beliefs and opinions and to express them as you are to express your obvious Pro homosexuality marriage opinion, but there is no need for vicious abuse that you have hearalded on this woman. (oh and for the record, I dont know her and am not part of her church, Just a normal Aussie Woman with her own opinion who was rather shocked at this article)
thanks
An opinion isn’t worth holding if it can’t stand up to scrutiny.
Opinions aren’t sacred, and people have every right to dissect someone’s opinion and point out what’s wrong with it and why.
Yes, people are entitled to their beliefs and opinions, but it would be very helpful if their beliefs and opinions were backed up by facts. Margaret Court’s opinions cannot be backed up by facts, because all the facts available regarding gay people, same-sex marriage, and pretty much everything else she chooses to pontificate about prove her to be wrong, wrong, wrong.
I also can’t see anything in what Mike wrote above that could be classed as “vicious abuse”. If anything, I think he went rather easy on the old bigot.
Marriage was instituted to ensure that men’s possessions passed on to their biological heirs – it’s got nothing to do with what God wanted
[...] won’t go through this train wreck again paragraph by sad paragraph, others have done that, just read it and weep. A couple of “highlights” : Our Constitution is based on [...]
“You need to be disciplined. I became the first Australian woman to win Wimbledon because I trained hard and worked towards it.”
So… if you can’t win Wimbledon, you shouldn’t be allowed to get married and stuff? Seriously?
Damn, I can barely hold a tennis racket for any length of time, never mind hit the ball. How do I explain this dilemma to my wife of twenty years… and our teenage kids!?!?!
How can all of you who are on this authors side truly go along with what he is so-called translating – how can he assume things – how can he claim that she is being racist – not once does she mention things against people of a different race! This author is being completely sac-religious and it just proves that he is in the category in which she is speaking about. The only thing I can say is – may God have mercy on you, and may you one day come to realise how much He truly loves you!
I assume you are referring to Allah? Or is it Zeus? Thor? Odin?
How would we know until his/her god grants the gift of spelling?
You say “sac-religious” {sic} like it’s a bad thing.
10 points out of 10, Mikey.
People like Margaret Court were the reason i left religion twenty years ago, i still find it amazing that all these years later i still keep hearing the same old preaching, next they will return to telling us cripples we are only this way due to our lack of religion, again.
Mike, she is clearly a nut-bag with archaic perceptions of human sexuality. Though, doing a quick search of your site here–and please direct me to the appropriate piece if I’ve missed it–I’ve noticed you haven’t belittled the comparably bigoted attitudes being imported to our country via Islam and African Christianity. I know Margaret Court’s an easy–and deserved–target, but come on, try harder.
Perhaps you can point us to comparably bigoted pieces in major Australian newspapers by non-Christian authors?
Can you be born a vampire? Too funny. Made my day.
This very funny
I don’t understand why we listen to (read: mainstream media gives air time to) ageing sports stars and their views on social matters.
So funny, Mike. Or not, really. I’m now encouraged to attend the April atheist convention in Melbourne just to rid myself of the nasty feelings her piece has engendered in me. (Not homosexual engender, you understand.)
[...] Op Ed in the Herald Sun, with ideas it espouses regarding same-sex attraction and marriage. Mike Stuchbery has taken it upon himself to put it into the Plain English for the Plain Thinking [...]
I agree many of her views are inappropriate in this more enlightened age, particularly those regarding homosexuality, however to dismiss and ridicule her out of hand with a broad brushstroke is unfair and indicates bias and ignorance on your part.
The alternative would seem to be to entertain her diatribe as if it were a rational piece of work.
“…to dismiss and ridicule her out of hand with a broad brushstroke is unfair…”
How so? It’s not so much that her views are “inappropriate”, as they are flat out wrong. Demonstrably, empirically wrong.
Factually incorrect, that is.
That was brilliant. You, sir, deserve a large lemon-flavoured custard tart.
What a democratic country we live in – where a self-appointed moral guardian like Margaret – who’s education seems to owe more to corporal punishment and tennis lessons than theological study – is given space in a major metropolitan newspaper to berate us with her marginal, small-minded bigotry. And isn’t it heartening to see God-fearing folk like Michael Byrne, keeping the language and writing style of the 18th Century alive in their vigorous defence of Dr Rev Margaret. I couldn’t agree more. As Michael helpfully reminds us, the Bible (Leviticus 18:22) describes homosexuality as an abomination. That said, I’d like to ask Margaret and David’s advice on a few other biblical regulations with which I’m struggling:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
Also, I’ve been meaning to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Papua New Guinea, but not New Zealanders. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Kiwis?
I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
Of course, Lev. 11:10 tells us that, along with homosexuality, eating shellfish is also an abomination. Can you please clarify if Thai crab cakes are therefore against “reason and nature”.
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16). Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
Margaret and David, I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging. Keep up the good work.
Your quoting of Scripture makes me understand you being a fundamentalist Christian. I cannot engage with such silliness and sloppiness.
A fundamentalist Christian? God forbid.
Michael Byrne,
I cannot understand why people, such as Margaret Court, continue to hold narrow minded, judgmental views in this present day. More importantly, I cannot understand why she felt the need to put her out-dated opinion in the media. Surely she would know that this would only cause damage to all concerned.
And don’t tell me that the reason is because she is worried for the future generations of Australia. If she really wants to make a change, she should be talking about love and civility.
Whenever anyone like Margaret Court comes along and spouts the nonsense that she has, I can’t help but feel for all those men, women, and teenagers who have either committed suicide or been bashed, beaten, raped, tortured, or murdered, just because of their sexuality. As well as their families, who must be shocked and bewildered that such hate still exists today.
Actually, he was ripping off a speech from The West Wing.
And the West Wing writers ripped it off from an open letter written to US radio personality Dr. Laura Schlessinger and posted on the internet.
Let Bartlett be Bartlett.
Hey folks, let’s be a little discerning. Personally, I don’t agree with any of the comments made by her. But this is clearly a vitriolic and cheap way to counter her points of view. Come on guys, let’s be a bit smarter about this. Other people are entitled to their point of view. If we disagree, then let’s do it with dignity, and not with some smart alec diatribe.
See my comment above. Not all opinions are valid, and they are certainly not valid if there is no sound evidence to back them up.
A smart alec diatribe is exactly the right response; treating vicious nonsense with dignity is to grant considerably more respect than is deserved. “One horse laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms.”
I agree that the Dr Reverend Court is a bigot, Mike. But she did have a fantastic top-spin lob.
Hi,
I loved the article and being the Father of a Gay son, who has an extremely strong faith in God, says that those who take the word of the bible need to read it more closely and not take what they think is morally right from it, less they become like the fanatics of many faiths, that spit on small children because their path may cross their front door or send kids to die in the name of the lord. The bible is a series of stories written to the the apostle’s interpretation, but it says in their that no man should judge another, that is God and his/her’s role. It also says that to err is human, to forgive is divine! I would also question a man who spends most of his time with 12 other men, has a women that he saves from ill repute and supposedly doesn’t take up the offer of sexual favours.
For what I have read most religions on this earth their teaching is for love and tolerance of one another. As a Father of a son who is gay, should I stone him to death as it tells me to do with my daughters if they sin against the flesh?
The biggest problem in the world today as Margaret Court points out is no one is prepared to take responsibility in this world. Well I do, with unashamed love support and pride for my Son. If she believes that the world is becoming deceitful, it is because people live in fear of Bigots and Religious Fanatics. Fear of being ridiculed and cajoled and ostracized by society over some of which they have no control..
Hi,
I loved the article and being the Father of a Gay son, who has an extremely strong faith in God, says that those who take the word of the bible need to read it more closely and not take what they think is morally right from it, less they become like the fanatics of many faiths, that spit on small children because their path may cross their front door or send kids to die in the name of the lord. The bible is a series of stories written according to the apostle’s interpretation, but it says in their that no man should judge another, that is God and his/her’s role. It also says that to err is human, to forgive is divine! I would also question a man who spends most of his time with 12 other men, has a women that he saves from ill repute and supposedly doesn’t take up the offer of sexual favours.
For what I have read most religions on this earth their teaching is for love and tolerance of one another. As a Father of a son who is gay, should I stone him to death as it tells me to do with my daughters if they sin against the flesh?
The biggest problem in the world today as Margaret Court points out is no one is prepared to take responsibility in this world. Well I do, with unashamed love support and pride for my Son. If she believes that the world is becoming deceitful, it is because people live in fear of Bigots and Religious Fanatics. Fear of being ridiculed and cajoled and ostracized by society over some of which they have no control..
Can see why she was a tennis player and not a rocket scientist.
Brilliant.
[...] Posted by David, on January 27th, 2012 Quite possibly the best translation of Margaret Court ever. [...]
Hilarious. Best way to respond to this nonsense. I especially like the translations about the Bible being a magic book and god bestowing superpowers. Margaret is one seriously troubled woman, her rhetoric is ‘straight’ out of the USA bible belt. She should save dogmatic diatribe like this for her pulpit and members of her flock who like to drape themselves in orange robes and lie prostrate on the ground, seeking ‘healing’. Like many good people living in this secular nation, I object to this kind of bible bashing, especially when it is justified under the banner of free speech. Not surprised that tabloid rag like the Herald Sun gave her a platform.
[...] And this made me [...]
[...] MARGARET COURT, TRANSLATED. | Mike Stuchbery [...]
[...] former tennis champion and the pastor of the ‘Victory Life Centre‘ is adding to her recent comments about the Gays and how they are like a strange form of vampire with an interview she’s given to the Sunday [...]
[...] And this made me [...]
You, good sir, are a genius. I wish you would do the the USA Republicans what you do to Margaret Court. There are many people here who really need to have those idiots translated as well because they’re buying into their bullsh*t.
Court says: “Let me be clear. I believe that a person’s sexuality is a choice. In the Bible it said that homosexuality is among sins that are works of the flesh. It is not something you are born with.”
Does that mean that she experiences both heterosexual and homosexual desires but continuously and consciously makes the choice to be straight? Has she caved in to those sinful ‘works of the flesh’ and dabble with lesbianism in the past? Is this why she only won Wimbeldon three times, and not the six times she believes would have been possible had only she’d fully understood the power of the Bible instead of the power of human nature?
The goodnews (gospel) is she is 70 years old, and will probably only live another 5 to 10 years. Hopefully less. My hope is those types of views die out with her. Good riddance, Stegasaurus.
I used to be very good at sport and very popular. Now I am unknown and irrelevant so I demonise others using my `Sky-Fairy` ..
Religion has no bearing on individual chioce..If you a confussed and don’t understand how people love each other you should really just shut the fuck up and keep your fairy tales and opinions to yourself…I think this chick may be afraid to come out and is clutching onto anything that will keep her safe and in the dark…It’s a safe place for her…Sad old duck…
What a crude and moronic comment to make.
It is a fool who does not distinguish between self giving love of men and women in conjugal love and the gay romantic/sexual love that elevates above the more usual promiscuity at play in their scene.
I knew I was gay when I hit puberty at 10. Unfortunately I never knew anyone gay until I was 35. I got married (to a woman) to try and make myself straight but it only made things worse. Now that I am with my (male) partner I have never been happier or more content. I never had someone tell me I was gay all my life or “touch” me. I just knew.
Anyone with a knowledge of history can tell you that marriage was all about property and family alliances. That’s why it’s called a marriage contract. The first Christian marriage vows were written for same sex marriages and only later did the church formalise heterosexual marriage.
It’s also worth noting that only the religions based on Judaism have a problem with homosexuality. All other cultures either accepted homosexuality or even encouraged it. The idea that a Christian can force their belief on people of other faiths (or no faith) sickens me. This is not what Christianity is about. Read your bibles instead of “interpreting” them.
[...] University. He’s the patron of the Australian Family Association, along with people like Margaret Court. He’s also the son of former Governor-General, Sir Zelman [...]
[...] seeing the reality beyond a person’s words. We saw it on this blog with Kyle Sandilands and Margaret Court. Tonight, this ability manifested as I watched Kevin Rudd’s speech, announcing his tilt at [...]